8/17/2008

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I received this question in my post The debate rages on

Hypothetically I am pulled over for something and I am carrying my unloaded gun in a lock case which is in the trunk. Does the officer who stops me need to know that? I figure I wouldn't volunteer the information unless he asked, but is it better for me to say I have it up front?


The gun isn't a danger to us so I wouldn't mention it. I hate to say it but I wouldn't tell the officer about it even if he asks if there are any weapons in the car. After all, you are in compliance with the law and the gun is absolutely no threat. I only say this because there is always the chance you will encounter an over-zealous officer who wants to seize it for "public safety" reasons and you have no legal obligation to tell him about an unloaded gun in a locked box in your trunk.

Speaking of over-zealous cops, I remember a traffic stop I was on when I was a shiny new officer. I was a rookie and showed up on a stop as a back-up for a more experienced but less intelligent veteran officer.

The cop had pulled over a guy in his mid-60s. The driver was a good old country boy who lived a couple of counties away. He said he was coming into the city to finalize the purchase of a boat or something like. He was very polite and had only been stopped for going a little over the speed limit. You could tell by talking to him that he was a good solid citizen and what I consider one of the "good guys".

Well the stop was pretty much over and the veteran officer just gave him a warning. Almost as an afterthought, the officer asked the driver if he had any drugs or weapons in the car. The driver seemed surprised and said that he had a pistol in a case in the backseat. He explained that he didn't have a carry permit but he was a little nervous coming into the big city and liked to have it in case something happened.

Now this was technically illegal since he didn't have a permit but there was also a clause about "traveling" with a weapon. It is legal if the person is moving or traveling to and from a gun range. If this guy had said he was going to the range or something like that, he would have been okay.

Instead, the officer conducting the stop took him out of the car (at gunpoint) and put him in cuffs. Keep in mind that this stop had been completely friendly and was practically over at this point. The officer arrested the guy for carrying a weapon without a permit and seized the gun.

The poor guy was speechless. He kept apologizing and saying how he was going to lose his job if we arrested him. I know the law is the law but I felt disgusted about this arrest. Here was a good citizen who was only trying to maintain some bit of protection in an admittedly dangerous city, was honest about it, and got arrested for his troubles.

As a rookie officer, all I could do was help impound his vehicle. Out of all the arrests I have done over the years, this is one of the few that I lost sleep about. Heck, I still feel guilty about it and if it had gone to trial I would have tried to sabotage it on the stand. Unfortunately, this guy pled guilty and now has a criminal record. Any real crook would have fought it and probably got off.

I know that if it was my stop, I would have let the guy go. If it happened today, I would pull that other officer aside and try to change his mind about things.

14 bits of radio chatter:

PCSO Bloggs said...

I think we all get stops like this where we would deal with it in a different way. It's a hard job when you criminalise decent people. Not a nice part when you think there life has been effected by your decision for the rest of their life.

5150Wife said...

Hey Johnny! Glad to hear you mention the incident with the good ol' boy. It's nice to hear some out there -besides my JD- remember to consider the spirit of the law in addition to the letter of the law. Thank goodness common sense still prevails in some of our LEO's.

Stay safe!

RoaVaPD said...

Great story. Can't disagree with a word you printed. I've been in a few similar situations and was able to use my discretion to educate and warn. But when you're a rookie on someone else's stop, you're only along for the ride.

TheBronze said...

Johnny, your beat partner was a dick!

I agree with everything you just said. Good cops know the difference between the "good-guys" and the dirt-bags.

Anonymous said...

Ive worked with plenty of 20 and 30 year on the job rookies.

Anonymous said...

"remember to consider the spirit of the law in addition to the letter of the law."

That's an important thing for any cop to remember.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it. It's something I've always been nervous about when going to/from the gun range or on my way to go camping.

chris in se tx said...

You know, even though I sometimes disagree with you over the "police force" issues and the like, you are a good guy. When you say you still feel bad about this, and you would have sabotaged the trial, it shows me that you (now that you have experience) would stand up for what you think is right. When you're new at a job, it's very hard to do, to stand up for stuff. But knowing that you would now, you should try to allow yoursef a reprieve. We all do (or don't do) stuff we feel bad about later, but learning from it and having a a feel of right and wrong, is what makes a difference.....

Anonymous said...

Nice,the sausage officer violated the mans Second Amendment rights.

DW said...

Gotta comment on this one.

Not all states have a clause that allows travel to and from a range. My state does not, I know all you guys know that, but some lurkers out there may not.

da said...

Its none of they officers business whats in your trunk as long as its not drugs,etc.

chris in se tx said...

DA,
I'm curious to know, how do you draw a distinction of "unreasonable search and seizure" of "drugs etc" in your trunk and equally illegal gun? Granted, morally I make the same distinction, but saying "it's none of the officer's business" is ridiculous. Legally, either it's legal or it's not. You seem to be saying that an illegal gun is OK, but illegal drugs or "etc." (whatever the hell that means, pornography, fireworks, booze?, is not????

So, the laws YOU disagree with are OK to violate, but the ones YOU are OK with, people have to obey????

john said...

I really wonder sometimes if our police officers think about the 'spirit' of the law anymore. Seems more often than not, its safer for your job to follow the letter of the law than try to interpret it in a real life situation. Too bad for us.

Rechtsanwalt said...

I think it is good to not keep these guns with you when you are on the drive because of the public safety reasons.