Nobody's punching bag
A few years ago my partner and I were on foot patrol around the bar district of my city. We got waved over by a doorman who was in an argument with an obviously intoxicated guy.
It turned out that the drunk was being refused entry and was unhappy about it. I tried to explain to him that the bar could refuse service to anyone and there were plenty of other bars nearby that he could go to. Of course he wouldn't hear of it and just kept yelling that he knew his rights. I inevitably got tired of arguing and told him he was under arrest for being drunk in public.
Once I told him this he started to back away from me.. Well sorry but once that decision is made, I'm not going back on it. My partner and I both grabbed him and the fight was on. I didn't expect a big struggle because the guy looked like a young business professional who had just had too many cocktails. He surprised me and started violently twisting and kicking.
I had a grip on one arm and my partner had the other. For whatever reason, the drunk was able to jerk his arm away from my partner and slug me in the mouth before I could react. My partner jumped on his back after that and we were able to get him in cuffs. Afterwards I noticed that my lip was busted up pretty good.
We booked the guy in for felony assault on an officer. He spent the entire ride yelling about what he would do next time he saw me. Nice guy. Witnesses were interviewed and photos were taken of my injury. At the end of the night another older veteran officer asked me if I had gotten any licks in. I told him that I thought about it but figured it wasn't worth it since the guy was looking at serious felony charges that would be worse than anything I would have done. This veteran cop laughed and said that I should just wait and see what happens to these "serious" charges.
A few months went by and I received a call from the local DA. He told me that my assault guy was about to go to trial and he wanted my input before any plea agreements were reached. I was actually surprised that they were considering a deal since it was an open and shut case. What was there to argue? The DA started talking about how the defendant was a young guy with no previous criminal history and how a jury would be hesitant to convict him on the felony.
I pointed out that it's not a matter of previous history. The guy punched a cop in the face. If he was willing to do that, what else is he capable of when he loses his temper? I also offered to show the DA my in-car video of all the drunken threats he made while enroute to the jail.
The DA replied that juries sometimes felt that as a police officer, it is considered part of my job to have to deal with threats and assaults from time to time. I was silent for a few seconds and then asked, "Did you just say that it is part of my job to be assaulted?"
He hemmed and hawed but repeated that juries often felt that way. I ended the conversation by saying that I would be happy if the defendant either plea to the felony and got probation or pled to a misdemeanor but served a few weeks of jail time. It was important to me that he didn't get less that than. The DA thanked me for my input and said he understood.
A few days later I called down to the courthouse to check the case disposition. The guy pled to a misdemeanor assault and got probation with deferred ajudication. That basically means that he didn't do any jail time and the charge will disappear if he stays out of trouble for a year. So the guy pretty much got away clean despite my conversation with the DA.
That incident really made me cynical about things. Since I've been a cop I have been spit on, punched, kicked, threatened, and shot at. While those things sometimes happen to police, that doesn't make it any less illegal. My position is that if someone is willing to do that to an officer, what danger do they pose to the general public.
I will tell you this, I became much less gentle during the arrest process after this incident. I don't abuse people but I sure don't use kid gloves either. If you want to fight the police, be prepared for it. A lot of people have since learned that OC spray burns for at least 30 minutes. Street justice is sometimes the only justice we get.
23 bits of radio chatter:
I can see what you mean, and I have to admit I feel a bit of the same after having experienced the same thing. I'm not talking about abuse or even unjustified use of force: most of the time we have the legal right to use a lot more force than we do. But as for you, after a few years on the streets I have less patient with those who have chosen to fight the police, and less hesitation to use force to end things quickly.
I do however believe that there is a thin line between this, and the type of street justice that should be avoided. I don't beat up people, and I leave it to the courts to punish. The bottom line for me is as you say: when someone choose to fight me, I sure as hell have every intent to win the fight and I will do whatever it takes to do that. And the harder you fight, the more I will hurt you to stop you.
amen brother
The jurors in my county have not been shy to convict people when they've assaulted officers. Perhaps as a consequence, our DA doesn't seem to have any problem bringing those charges when they're appropriate. I don't expect any police officers to use kid gloves when they're assaulted, but I hope our "law and order" attitude makes it easier to do the job.
Spot-on to Johnny and norcop.
The problem with a lot of coppers, especially younger ones, is that they fail to use enough force quickly enough, thus having to use more force over a more extended period of time, than if they used greater force at the beginning.
It's not too hard to figure out why they do, but its what happens when you have administrators and DA's that don't back up officers.
More coppers get hurt this way, than if they'd have used greater/more force initially.
Better to use "speed, surprise and violence of action" (as SWAT-types like to say) instead of using lesser for longer.
Anymore, it seems like it is easier to throw the book at someone who really has something to lose, and like society wants to make an example of white collar criminals, so people who are real criminals get let off easy. We have a system where going through the criminal process is easier than it used to be, while the ramifications are much longer-lasting than they used to be, as they will follow you for life and keep you from ever making something of yourself after you make that first stupid mistake.
Seems things would be better if we'd just start publically executing violent criminals and sex offenders again, while allowing anyone who does commit a lesser crime and then does their time to have a chance to clear their record if they keep themselves clean for a long enough period of time, while at the same time making prison a place you REALLY don't want to be by bringing back chain gangs and have people earn their 3 hots and a cot in there.
Oh well... instead we'll keep trying to slap people on the wrist and let them go out and commit terrible crimes again and again and again. Go figure.
Now this falls under "What I read on a blog once but was to lazy to save" category. Blog was volokh.com
Juries actually have two functions:
1. Is the defendant guilty according to the law ?
2. Ought the law in question be law at all or be enforced that way ?
The 2nd function was practiced till the turn of the last century. Then judges hit lawyers advising juries about the 2nd function with contempt of the court charges and it ceased to be practice.
But at no point the second function has actually been outlawed, it just lies dormant.
So if you complain about juries being stupid, stubborn, etc. remember this: They can do far worse than just wreck your case.
As for they why of the 2nd function: It was instuted to keep laws in check with the customs anf mores of the people they were enacted for.
It doesn't help your case when they show up in court looking like friggin choir boys instead of the drunken sots that they are. At least you had video. Look what happened to Mike when he was off duty in Iowa. Sometimes other police are not your friends.
My Kel-lite does the talkin.
this is the way the justice system works EVERYWHERE...This same situation happened to me..Now if it were the other way around..cop beating up drunk citizen, it would be a whole different outcome. The media where I'm from-Won't mention where-likes to have a field day with us..good things we do are on page 10 of the newspaper, but bad things we do are on the front page..I feel for you..It is not part of our job to get assaulted! I feel for you brother! Stay safe out there!!
Howdy,
I came across yoru blog.. whick i love...I am a new police officer In Halifax Canada, and I have a blog about my times...lol today is my first day working.. yippeee...Wondering if you could link to my blog, i'd do the same.. thanks
kennyo
http://apolicemanslife.blogspot.com
I know exactly what you mean. I arrested a guy one day that managed to get a good shot at me. He eblowed me in the temple and really rocked my boat. then he took off so we had to play the foot pursuit game. Anyway, when he went to court, they dropped the assauly on a PO because he said, "I didn't mean to hit him."
That made everything okay.
Plea-bargaining is rife in the UK. If someone commits a burglary and then assaults the police officer who arrests them, they often get rid of the assault charge if the offender admits/pleads guilty to the burglary. One crime solved, one stat. Sad world. We are no less entitled to protection from the law. What message does this give out?
This happens all the time in LA....that is, if the DA even FILES the case in the first place.....
This would not have been filed as a felony in most courts here.....they require that we actually be admitted to the hospital and have significant (IE: broken bones) injuries before they will even think about filing a felony.....
A police officers department reputation is only as good as the D.A.s' office wants it to be. Too bad...
Ah, good ol' knuckle sandwiches served fresh with a light pepper sauce! Mm-mmm!
Too bad they do get off the hook. And too bad a lot of them are so drunk, high, or pissed to feel any of that counter-street lovin'!
What message does this give out?
9:54 AM
INFECTION is global.The world wide homofication and Nanny State mentallity IS destroying society.It affects everything,even the armed forces.
My position is that if someone is willing to do that to an officer, what danger do they pose to the general public.
I keep trying to make this point that any one willing to attack an armed trained police officer is a clear and present danger to the public; they should be punished severely to protect those who are not so able to defend themselves.
Knuckle sandwich with light pepper sauce! LOL Good one!
When Mr. Citizen decides to go hands on, 99% of the time I think he deserves a good old fashioned ass whoopin'. See, this is why YOU GUYS get to be the cops and not me. You're considerably more restrained than I'd be.
Stay safe!
Please help pass on my t-shirt idea!
Well, because of my medical training, I'm probably a little more tolerant of what someone does while they're altered mental, be it ETOH or low blood sugar, than you guys would be. I can understand where you're coming from- nobody enjoys getting punched in the face. I think the question driving the prosecution should be whether or not he would do that while in his right mind, in which case I'd have little problem with the felony charge.
Still, you won't catch me jumping on the bandwagon to be upset with the police, even in a case where I've been stopped myself. I understand you guys have got a tough job, and it's nice to know that EMS has got you guys when the situation gets hairy for us. I'm just saying that I'd probably be leaning more towards the misdemeanor than the felony. It's too bad they didn't even give them that, though.
there's a difference between a regular citizen who turns into a jackass when he's drunk, and a someone who's a danger to society.
so he was a spoiled idiot. the jury is right not to throw this guy in prison. that's why we juries of peers decide our fates, rather than the cops we drunkenly punched.
you were composed and did your job - sent the guy to jail overnight, and gave him a legal hassle. he won't forget that.
as a regular citizen, i definitely grimace when i read cops talking about street justice or kel-lites or whatever.
i'm a veteran and i love this country. one of the things i love about it is that we have a civilized police force - an example for the rest of the world, and for ourselves.
so he was a spoiled idiot. the jury is right not to throw this guy in prison. that's why we juries of peers decide our fates, rather than the cops we drunkenly punched
..................................
you, sir, are an idiot. no one has the right to put hands on any one because he is drunk. i say if you were the injured party,you would be screaming bloody murder. just because i wear a badge i dont lose the rights that every else expects.
if i am in uniform and some drunk decides to fight, well then he made his choice. my goal every day i go to work is go home at the end of my shift. i made my choice and i love my job, but dont make judgements about something you have no idea about. just another guy behind the star.
be safe and watch out for each other.
Hey---cool blog!
Was it really painful when someone hit you back?
Or are you immune to it? coz ur a police!
Take care!
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